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Post by stevefromteksport on Apr 12, 2009 15:58:30 GMT -1
Question on colours:
In response to Terry's earlier comments regarding colours for inland fishing and touring, if you could have any one colour (which can be a fade or mix) for this purpose, what would it be?
(curious to see what the most popular choices are!)
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Post by izzetafox on Apr 12, 2009 16:23:03 GMT -1
Personally as it has to be salt and freshwater bright orange/yellow nice as a mottle like OK Mango Flame.
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Post by SEAJUNKY on Apr 13, 2009 8:28:38 GMT -1
Changing the subject. It has become apparent that the P13 doesn't have much plastic in the stern keel area. Only recently one of our members kayaks was pushed by the tide onto a launching ramp stern first. This removed a small amount of plastic sufficient enough to cause a leak. Demonstrating the vulnerability of thin skin kayaks. Also when you take into account the fact that we for most of the time launch from rocky beaches which scuff the hulls and keels. What measures have you put in place on the new kayaks to help eliminate hull wear and damage.
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Post by izzetafox on Apr 13, 2009 9:02:25 GMT -1
Thinking about colours..... It is said that fish have white bellys to hide them from predators below....so other than emergency visibility yaks for stealth should be white!!!
But...... dependant on viewing angle and depth of the fish the yak could be silouhetted against various backgrounds: Blue, grey or white...sky and clouds Green...trees and grass Beige...rushes
There are also arguments that mottling breaks up the straight edges and the outline is disguised....
So it's quite simple really Steve....NOT.
I think the definitive answer is just like with flies, lures and floats......various colours catch yakkers not fish. But any self-respecting specimen hunter would not allow his peers to see him ( or not see him lol ) in anything but camo or green.
Terry
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Post by stevefromteksport on Apr 13, 2009 12:26:05 GMT -1
Changing the subject. It has become apparent that the P13 doesn't have much plastic in the stern keel area. Only recently one of our members kayaks was pushed by the tide onto a launching ramp stern first. This removed a small amount of plastic sufficient enough to cause a leak. Demonstrating the vulnerability of thin skin kayaks. Also when you take into account the fact that we for most of the time launch from rocky beaches which scuff the hulls and keels. What measures have you put in place on the new kayaks to help illuminate hull wear and damage. Hi Steve - Great Question!The durability of a kayak should be at the top of any prospective buyer's list of considerations, and should really be one of the main considerations of any good manufacturer too - even the ultimate kayak design would be useless if it wasn't durable! This is an incredibly complex question, and one that could well take me all day to answer (and you all day to read) , however the in short answer is as follows: + where possible we design out points which could be prone to high wear + We try and avoid creating sudden changes of direction in areas which are prone to high impacts (keel, bow, stern, scuppers) to help minimise failures created by shear lines. + once we have a basic design, we add in detail which creates something called a "powder fence" this helps to trap plastic in areas where we want to make the plastic thicker - allowing us to create a stronger kayak without drastically increasing the weight. + We add texture to our mould surface. This helps the plastic to "stick" which not only allows us to have greater control over plastic thickness, but also allows us to use a higher grade of plastic. + We use the highest grade of plastic available to us, there are literally 1000's of different types of plastic, but we use one of the stiffest and highest density polyethylene's available (which is also repairable if you do ever put a hole in it) not all kayaks are made of the same grade plastic! + We use some of the most advanced production facilities in the world. All our kayaks are produced using computer controlled ovens - ensuring absolute consistency in production, and complete traceability should any problems occur. This also allows us to quickly identify any problems should they occur, and fix them. + Extensive testing of production shells, ensuring that high wear areas (like the keel and scupper holes) are of a suitable thickness to be durable in use. In short we do everything we can to ensure you have a kayak which is durable in use and fit for purpose, and only use the best grades of plastic to ensure your yak lasts you well into the future! If you would like a more detailed explanation to any of the points, please ask and I'll do my best to explain! Steve
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Post by BUDDY on Apr 13, 2009 17:05:27 GMT -1
Hi All I have only been away for 3 days and reading all these posts makes it feel like a lifetime. Well done to stevefromteksport for all the right answers to a multitude of questions. A massive amount of homework has been done and the finished product should be superb. Cant wait. Steve (buddy)
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Post by SEAJUNKY on Apr 13, 2009 18:28:44 GMT -1
Steve
Thanks for such an in depth explanation, you mention in your reply, scuppers. This is an area of great concern to us kayakers. As you will properly be aware there was an issue with the scuppers on one of the big kayaks (mentioning no names) the problem in part was due to miss guidance by trolley manufacturers. The impression was given that it was alright to insert the trolley poles into the scuppers; this in turn did a lot of damage to the scuppers. My feelings on this are that the plastic used in the production of these kayaks must be of a low quality, and the design methods used must have lead to inconsistent scupper thickness. Otherwise there would have been more scupper failures then there were.
The quality of the plastic used in the making of kayaks must vary tremendously. I like to think that my kayak (Native Manta ray) is made from a good quality plastic. But it is plain to see that some plastics are of a lesser quality.
Can I please ask what considerations are taken into account when thinking about scupper design? For instance if they were put at an angle of 45% fore to aft would it create less drag for instance? Would hull rigidity be enhanced by internal bulkheads to create say a fish hold? I hope that you don't mind all of these questions in what must be a very busy time for you.
Steve
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Post by stevefromteksport on Apr 14, 2009 13:44:04 GMT -1
Steve Thanks for such an in depth explanation, you mention in your reply, scuppers. This is an area of great concern to us kayakers. As you will properly be aware there was an issue with the scuppers on one of the big kayaks (mentioning no names) the problem in part was due to miss guidance by trolley manufacturers. The impression was given that it was alright to insert the trolley poles into the scuppers; this in turn did a lot of damage to the scuppers. My feelings on this are that the plastic used in the production of these kayaks must be of a low quality, and the design methods used must have lead to inconsistent scupper thickness. Otherwise there would have been more scupper failures then there were. The quality of the plastic used in the making of kayaks must vary tremendously. I like to think that my kayak (Native Manta ray) is made from a good quality plastic. But it is plain to see that some plastics are of a lesser quality. Can I please ask what considerations are taken into account when thinking about scupper design? For instance if they were put at an angle of 45% fore to aft would it create less drag for instance? Would hull rigidity be enhanced by internal bulkheads to create say a fish hold? I hope that you don't mind all of these questions in what must be a very busy time for you. Steve Hi Steve, Plastic:The plastic used by different manufacturers does vary massively and some plastics are better than others, but this is only part of the story. Just like baking a cake you can under or overcook a kayak - the results being uneven plastic through areas that should be even, brittle plastic, or in extreme cases a rough texture to the inside surface - almost like sandpaper (although a kayak of this quality would never leave a factory, I'm sure of that!) Your Native kayak is a very nice moulding indeed, clearly someone has spent time and effort getting the production cycle set up correctly, they have also considered the production during the design process - certainly an example of how to do it properly! Scuppers:I am aware of numerous issues with scuppers on various kayaks. Due to the very nature of the scupper (effectively a vertical tube at right angles to the main kayak, and in an awkward place) it is very hard aspect of a sit on top to mould correctly. With our three new sit on top models for this year we have worked extensively with the tool maker to create a mould tool system, and scupper shape which solves this problem, and at the same time make production more efficient (which in its self should reduce issues) In terms of the scupper angle: a scupper is more than just a drain hole. The water passing the underside of a scupper when you are moving creates a vacuum, which in turn “sucks” water out of your cockpit area. Changing the angle will have a significant impact on this effect, and so for this reason the scupper needs to be kept as close to 90 degrees from the hull as is possible. (if you would like a better understanding of this concept, try looking up the venturi effect, which is very similar, on google) You can however make minor tweaks to the shape to help reduce drag and interference (which causes gurgling). On the new fishing kayak if you look closely at the front scuppers, you will see that the leading edge has a small lip on it. This is there to streamline the scupper shape, and actually makes the scupper more effective at the same time Bulkheads:Yes is the simple answer. Any form of deck to hull beam will always increase hull rigidity, the problem comes in moulding this sort of feature into the kayak. Due to the nature of the roto moulding process and the fact that your are effectively creating a sealed shell it would only really be possible to fit a bulkhead as an after market feature. This is entirely possible, but would add significant cost to the finished boat, as it is a very labour intensive thing to do, however if there was sufficient demand, it is always something we could consider!? Hope this helps, Steve
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guern
valued Member
I know I'm old but it's better than the alternative.
Posts: 32
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Post by guern on Apr 15, 2009 18:38:45 GMT -1
Hi Steve Re new kayak, What is the overall length, breadth and weight likely to be? Those of us who have passed our best before date need to consider how easy it is to shift about on dry land and whether it can take a knock or two.. It looks as though it can handle a bit of rough without going wet side up, will you keep us posted on sea trials? Looks as though I'm going to have to earn some brownie points if "she who must be obeyed" is going to wear me buying another yak. Regards, Guern.
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Post by BUDDY on Apr 15, 2009 19:25:29 GMT -1
Hi guern. Dont make your mind up on the dimentions, the only way to find out for sure is to see and try one. When we take delivery the yak will be taken to meets for all to try out and all feedback will be put in the reviews by either the the user or the admin if the user prefers. Steve(buddy)
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Post by seaurchinkayak on Apr 16, 2009 11:02:13 GMT -1
For anyone wanting to get their hands on one of the first boats we are now taking pre-orders on our website.
These orders will be received by Typhoon as soon as they are placed ready for shipment direct to the customer once the first ones are available.
Thanks MikeV
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Post by stevefromteksport on Apr 16, 2009 15:12:52 GMT -1
Hi Guern,
Overall length is 330cm or 11ft in old money!
Width is 760mm or 30"
Weight will be approximately 23kg outfitted
(all above figures T.B.C. and I have aired on the side of caution too)
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